Patterico: It's infantile to argue about whether or not torture works. Of course it does! This scene from Dirty Harry proves it.
Whiskeyfire: Yes, that's really his argument.
Patterico: So let's please stop the childish claim that waterboarding-hell, even torture-cannot be effective. And let's instead have the adult conversation about whether we as a people believe it is morally justified and if so, when.
Whiskeyfire: "Adult conversations" exclude the idea that torture can ever be morally justified. Not that I am claiming we live in a nation run by adults. At best, vicious adolescents not half as bright as they imagine.
I gotta go with Whiskeyfire on this one. I still cannot believe that we are even having this discussion. The efficacy of torture? Doesn't matter--it's just wrong, one of those things that moral people don't do.